Following on from my previous post (“for fun or for success”), I keep thinking about a blog post I read from Jeff Vogel called The Bottom Feeder: Three Reasons Creators Should Never Read Their Forums.
If I have learned anything from writing Indie games for a living for fifteen years and there are plenty who would say that I haven’t, it is that it is usually a bad idea for creators to visit online forums discussing them and their work. It doesn’t lead to happy ends.
He offers three salient points:
- It’s Not Productive To Read How Much People Hate You
- It’s Not Going To Be Helpful
- You Might Get Suckered Into Getting Angry
I think there is certainly some truth in what he says. I’m only thinking of TDO-Mini-Forms, a project that was done for fun but became something else.
When I started it, I had a small group of users from the WordPress forums, I listened to them, made releases to address there issues and enjoyed the feedback. I setup this forum (I thought I was being clever using TDO-Mini-Forms to power a WordPress blog as a forum!) as a place to informally handle discussion, feedback, feature suggestions, bugs, etc. It was very open creative time and it was with pride that I saw people creating interesting sites using my plugin. This one-on-one feeling with users is great. It really motivates you to help them. Some bought me books or gave me donations as thanks.
For the profit-oriented readers, working with users directly like this, I got bigger and more donations than any other method. It seems people are quite happy to use your plugin for free but if they spend end up interacting with the author in a positive (not necessarily successful) way, they often give something back where they might not have done so before.
But user numbers grew and grew. And it hit a certain critical mass of users where I wasn’t meaningfully engaging with any of them. I think I hit what Jeff Vogel is talking about, though I didn’t have fans, I had users.
Every new feature or change I made would both be liked or derided by users including those same features previously demanded. Coupled with WordPress upgrades/changes that occasionally broke TDOMF outright, introduced new subtle bugs, or highlighted ones that no-one noticed before, users demanded fixes and patches. The stuff I wanted to do, I couldn’t.
Forums contain a cacophony of people telling you to do diametrically opposite things, very loudly, often for bad reasons. There will be plenty of good ideas, but picking them out from the bad ones is unreliable and a lot of work. If you try to make too many people happy at once, you will drive yourself mad. You have to be very, very careful who you let into your head.
I fell into this trap big time. My reaction? Dragging my heels until I stopped working on TDO-Mini-Forms completely. It was a slow long process, though. I still tried for a long time, replying to emails, offering advice over twitter, trying desperately to keep up with the forums, etc. But it poisoned my enjoyment.
I was creating/maintaining TDO-Mini-Forms for fun, a pet project. I was learning PHP, WordPress, web programming, DB management, etc. as I went a long. Many of my early mistakes are buried in TDO-Mini-Forms (and occasionally loud users remind me of these failures). I felt I couldn’t evolve or play with TDO-Mini-Forms, in case I broke people’s existing set-ups, so it became stale. Work on it was maintenance, backwards compatibility testing, etc. and I wasn’t getting much out of it. Even the few donations I got, which I heartily appreciated, were not enough incentive. I was trying to please everyone and ended up not just frustrating people, but frustrating myself.
If I were to do things different, I’d treat TDO-Mini-Forms more as a product (as I suggested in my previous post). Create a layer between myself and the users and even try to make some money off it (in fact many users have suggested I do this). Of course hindsight is great and by now there are a few alternatives out there, and where do I find the time?
I still get the occasionally email about TDO-Mini-Forms, sometimes I reply, sometimes I just leave there unread, which is unfair to the sender and myself. I see the occasionally tweet or blog entry, sometimes positive, sometimes negative (those make me sad). But I rarely respond. I’ve so far managed to avoid, number 3: You Might Get Suckered Into Getting Angry.
I never read the forums that I setup and I think I may end up deleting it outright. I no longer link to them directly from my home page. I’m not sure about the best approach to this as there are new posts every day on it but WordPress.org has it’s own forums for TDO-Mini-Forms (like it does for every plugin). I may just redirect there one day and leave it at that. I’d be inclined to keep the forums if they readership spilled out into other topics that I do have an interest in, like roleplaying or writing, but that’s not going to happen. I barely blog about WordPress as it is. There isn’t much overlap. Even when TDO-Mini-Form users comment on my blog, they are looking for advice or help.
I often evaluate WordPress plugins that I use for my own blog(s) through the lens of my experience of TDO-Mini-Forms. If it’s a simple, one-job, type of plugin then that’s normally okay, if it works. If it’s a big popular plugin and the author seems to be serious about making something off it (such as they work with WordPress professionally, or they have big donate panels on the plugin), that’s a good thing. Means they are going to support it across versions of WordPress etc. (I wish I had done this with TDO-Mini-Forms).
Also, if they themselves are using the plugin on their own blog, that’s a very hot indicator. It’s core functionality will be maintained across WordPress upgrades. (I no longer use TDO-Mini-Forms actively anywhere).
Anything in-between, I get a little suspicious, fearful it won’t get updated with the next major WordPress overhaul or that minor bugs will never get fixed. I wouldn’t depend on such plugins. (That’s where TDO-Mini-Forms now lies, big plugin but not actively in use by author and not “productized” in any way).
Now hopefully I’ve gotten all that TDO-Mini-Forms angst out of me! Next rules for Lost Heroes RPG and a blog post about dream worlds in roleplaying settings.
Just wanted to thank you again for your hard work with TDO Mini Forms!
Hi Mark,
I really feel with you, and all the great theme and plugin devs I have seen giving up, fighting with the same frustration you are writing about.
I’m by myself a developer, and have joined the wordpress community 3 years ago.
From there on I saw great devs leaving the boat in the same frustrated situation.
To just mention some, like Burt Adist, ck from bb-press or just recently Jeff Jayres from Buddypress and many more.
When I came to WordPress, I already enjoyed a great ecosystem and for the first I tried it the wp way.
I developed some plugins and themes, gave them away for free and was looking what can I get from donations, I wanted to believe in a world working like this.
And I guess this is the motivation of many others.
But with the time I found myself back in exactly the same situation.
This was the moment, where I already was home and felt familiar in the WordPress - and in my case - Buddypress world.
From a great developer, I read a forum post around this time about ways to keep yourself motivated.
And from this moment everything worked fine for me, but wasn’t anymore 100% THE WP WAY.
What I did,
I started to take a fee for my plugins. For todo mini forms, for example, I would make a pro version for 39$ and 3$ updates a month.
I was afraid, people will be angry, but in the end it was the opposite, it was like you write in the beginning again.
People were thankful that the dev became more serious.
That they can now build projects based on my work without to be afraid to work with unsupported plugins and themes in the end.
In the end I felt my users/customers were more happy, and me too.
I keep the free plugins alive but firstly I put all my work for features/bug fixes in the premium versions.
The free ones: from time to time I update them, but the pro version is a month before.
This is a great way to still have the WP repository as a place to find your plugin and use it for free, as a free demo for example.
The professional users, all people who will make money, will pay you for the plugin and the updates, and the free users will never complain.
They will thank you for this kind of philosophy.
I’m 100% sure, this situation should be addressed from WordPress.org (Automattic) to help keep Developers happy.
We all need to live a life. We are not in a dream fun world.
I hope, it would be possible, to have premiums themes and plugins listed in the plugin and theme area in WP.
So it would be more normal to have basic free and premium paid stuff in WordPress. Like it’s normal in the apps world.
To have a hobby is great, but if your hobby becomes an essential part in other’s work-lives, things become difficult.
Maybe you think about it as a process, we all go through together. It’s great we all start with the FREE in our mind but the truth is, step by step people leave frustrated.
Time to find the middle way. For me what I have written now works. And it feels more realistic and truthful than ever before.
Thanks for all your work, it would make me happy to see you in the premium world.
Would be really bad luck for the whole community to loose you, even leaving frustrated.
Wish you all the best,
Sven
Mark,
I have tried to install the mini forms plug in for my blog, but every time, it comes up with fatal error and locks me out of my blog. I have to go to the my hosting website and remove the plugin before I can get back into the blog. I am fairly new to this blogging and need to have this up an running soon.
Any suggestions?
Registered users on my site are getting “moderation” emails for every post that goes through including post that arn’t theirs. I tried tweaking some stuff and its still doing it. can you help??
I’m trying to use the category widget as a checkbox option. If I try to specify the categories to include, no categories display in the form. Only when I leave that section blank am I able to see the categories in the form.
In the exclusion box, I’ve tried to enter all of the categories not to include and still no luck.
Can you suggest what I could be doing wrong? This plugin seems to be exactly what I need, if I can get it working.
Thanks.
thanx for TDO mini form, it’s a good plugin
Hi Mark - is it just me or has the plugin vanished from wordpress.org? All links point to a nasty 404 …
Please update link for me?
The download link is dead.
Thanks
Hey Andre and ayeweb, see my latest blog post for why: http://thedeadone.net/blog/where-has-tdo-mini-forms-plugin-gone/
I just wanted to say, I feel your pain. Thanks for making the plugin! I’m currently torn between using yours and another one. It does give me pause that there could be problems with upgrading for plugins that aren’t actively maintained. I’ll chime in with someone else and say that I agree with the premium paid model for plugin’s that are kept updated. Have you considered farming out the bug fixing and overall maintenance to another team (for premium) and taking on more of a management/oversight role?
We have been using TDO-MiniForms for years and have loved it! It has been a GREAT way to get User-Generated Content. What other alternatives do we have if we leave TDO-Mini-Forms. Ideally, we want to stick with it, but I am afraid of bugs as WordPress evolves and updates. Is there a chance we could pay you to do an individual product/plugin for us that is almost identical to TDOMF? If not, please let me know which one would be best to use moving forward that accomplishes the same task…
Thanks!